Dreams of Rivers and Seas - Tim Parks

The Ram, Widcombe. April 26th.

This story of dysfunctional family relationships set mainly in India produced a 50:50 split of opinion in the group, like no other. Some people liked the constantly changing narrators, some found this odd. Most liked the plot revolving around the young man discovering his parents and his madness on the death of his father. Some found the end unsatisfactory despite it's unexpected twist (not twisted enough for some). Some liked the portrayal of the characters. We really felt got to know them, except perhaps the father. We all liked different characters with votes for Paul, the visiting academic biographer and the mother Helen. Some thought the son John, an accurate portrayal of a son unable to find his own way in life with distant and professionally obsessed parents. Others thought him not only completely pathetic (where did the empathy and care of our professionals go?) but unconvincing too: too stupid for a Ph D (some of us know otherwise) and not recognising his father's worldwide reputation.

There was also a mixed reception to the portrayal of India with some recognising the experience of Indian streets and a foreigner's shock at the intensity of it all, others critical that, for example, a cheap hotel had air conditioning (and why not?).

Many liked the philosophical themes, often based on opposites e.g. loyalty/betrayal that were brought up but felt they were not explored or explained enough. Some liked the style despite some hiccoughs, others found it slow and unengaging.

Did we like the frequent allusions to sexual and sensual attraction (and the occasional encounter)? On balance, yes. This added to the engagement with the book and the observations e.g. awareness of someone's skin tone and heat were appreciated. Some rather liked the sexy actor girlfriend but couldn't believe she'd go for an older man!

Chris B has been reading Tim Parks' autobiographical book, Teach Me to Sit Still. This explores Tim's journey though his prostate related pain (or is it?) via traditional medicine and absolute scepticism for any alternatives though meditation, shiatsu and Buddhist practice. In the book, he reflects that many of his novels are about people who want to be or are set apart from the world, event to be point of Alberta’s death wish. He notes that this reflects his tendency to become withdrawn, lose interest in intimacy and be accused of beings aloof as a result of his pain. He also observes that these stories "didn't quite satisfy," "didn't really say it". And that reflects our experience of his book too!

An Ordinary Soldier - Doug Beattie

The Crown, Bathford, March 29th 2012. Good ale!

It was clear from the outset that this book would not be one of our literary classics, which was disappointing in that Doug Beattie MC was assisted by his co-writer Philip Gomm, who as a journalist probably has an A level or a Degree in English.  Notwithstanding this we are in a “book club”; not a “literature club”.  If the literary style irritates – tough – it was easy to read and had few if any grammatical errors.

Doug Beattie was clearly a man with a particularly interesting life.  Who else amongst us has shot their best friend; suffered systematic bullying; guarded Rudolf Hess; served with the UN peacekeeping force in the terrible Balkan war; was part of the initial invasion of Iraq, serving under the Col Tim Collins who made the widely broadcast pre-invasion speech to his troops. Doug Beattie’s account was frank and honest. That gave the book considerable credibility, however many of these failings grated with me/us.  As for the assault on Garmsir it was amazing how chaotic it all appeared and how much “lead” flew around without hitting much.  The chaos was not unexpected; there is a saying in military circles that all plans, however well found will not survive first contact with the enemy, due to human error, communications or technical breakdown.  In spite of this they (the British OMLT) seemed quite fearless standing up in their un-armoured Land Rovers to return fire against the Taliban.  Neil needs a big thank you for pointing out the U-Tube link to the documentary about this assault on Garmsir.  It is well worth a visit, giving a different perspective and adding context to the book. 

There were comments below about the unfairness of the war in that air strikes can be brought in “at will” (not so in the book), but this is an asymmetric war where the Taliban attack at their time and place of choosing and lob mortars into areas populated by their own people.  The only moral call here is that probably the Taliban have more right to kill their own people than we do, although we have been invited Afghan Government to be there.  (I don’t intend opening that particular can of worms, it was just a note on the morals of how the war is conducted.  Don’t blame the messenger – tell Mr Blair.)  Each day in Garmsir seemed similar to the previous one.  It probably was and all credit to the ANA, ANP and OMLT for sticking to their task, retaking the town and actually encouraging the locals to return home and open shops etc.  It was not the author’s fault that the mission was inevitably going to fail when the ANP & ANA could not hold the town as the support was withdrawn.  It was a gutsy hard won battle and an inspiring read for it.

The following additional comments were offered:

Steve had not finished the book, being about half way through.  Doug Beattie tries to be introspective, but his experiences were so profound that he could not find the words to tell the story.  The writing style was naïve and cliché overloaded – in particular the description of the suicide bombing in the opening chapter.  It could have been a better book if the co-writer had done his job better.

Mark T was irritated by the style – GCSE essay style, and reading about things he did not agree with, i.e. the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.  He is only half way through, but encouraged at the meeting to complete the book and provide a score.

Richard felt the book was full of thoughts and feeling, but if there was a ghost writer why was it so bad?  He liked the autobiographical approach and was sorry it was not developed more fully.  He like less the details of each days skirmishes which were samey and in particular his self description as a buffoon and he was convinced this is not true and downplaying himself was grating.

Chris B agreed with the style issues, but thought there were exciting situations described and was impressed by their response to them.  It was easy to read in spite of the style.  It was a classic war book highlighting the chaos, luck/ill luck of war.  The human portrayal was real, but the whole situation was frustrating.

Mark Th thought the writing quality was never an issue - it was uniformly bad throughout.  However, the last 120 pages were compelling for revealing his honesty, frustration and the way he showed that even the most heroic fighters can be prone to self-doubt, guilt and fear. The caricature of the Afghans and in particular General Gulshan also struck a chord of credibility.  The first 2/3 of the book were not so good, partly because he sketched over his past life so superficially, and partly also because the memoir of a soldier who enlists to fight as a career as he did is less interesting for me than a story told by someone who never planned to fight, as was so often the case in the two world wars.  My biggest problem with the book was the sheer boredom of reading the early battle scenes.

Chris W: Although you can't enjoy a book about a war that is being fought as I write I found this months long titled book very gripping and "unputdownable". Beattie describes in clear unpretentious prose the details of the fighting going on apparently on our behalf in Afghanistan. Even he is surprised that he survives the amount of lead sent his way. This phone precludes further text but among the things I will remember are the close relationships that developed when fighting a common enemy not only with his afghan troops and squaddie mates but also the distrust between the army and police who are meant to be on the same side. It doesn't augur well for the future.

Rob: it failed on almost every front. Accepted that the quality of writing was poor from the outset. In particular, he seemed to have no concept of how to introduce people and situations in a way that gave context and 'colour'. Probably the worst example was when his wife suddenly appeared as a completely unexplained character - we were expected to be shocked by him writing how she was neglected (e.g. Him not being present at the birth - surprise, surprise), nearly vomited when reading "she was right, I did have a mistress, the army". Pathetic cliché. Learnt nothing about what is going on in Afghanistan from the book that I hadn't already got from the BBC and the Guardian. Had hoped for something new - but no. Carried on reading it to the end, because genuinely wanted to know what was happening to the author - but that was because he was a real, current day person put there by our Govt., and not because of either the writing style or the depth of content.

Fingersmith - Sarah Waters

Devonshire Arms, Sarah Waters seemed to get a thumbs from all, while falling short of rave reviews.  There was agreement for example that the first plot twist was both impressive and impossible to second guess.   

Mark Th felt it was a fine read, though not quite as good as Affinity.  Mark T found the plot really exciting and saw Fingersmith as a modern take on gothic authors like Wilkie Collins.  He found the love scenes convincingly erotic and also noted how well Waters had evoked the look and feel of London.  He had looked forward to each reading of the book.  Chris W enjoyed it too, but felt it was some 200 pages to long with too much in the Maud section that was repetition. His suspicion was that Waters wrote in the hope of having a film based on the novel.  He enjoyed the plot twists and the imagery of the flight from Briar and felt that there was real dramatic tension at times.  However, the ending was predictable and the plot at times unconvincing – would Sue really seem convincingly mad, he wondered?  This was echoed by Ras, who also felt that it was, on balance a good book.  For Ras the plot was unnecessarily convoluted – why not just pitch up at Briar with the letter and a good lawyer and get the loot?  He also enjoyed the imagery, atmosphere and the description.  He also questioned whether a nocturnal marriage ceremony was legal at his time.  

 Neil, having read all of SW’s oeuvre, had not re-read it for the meeting, but felt that it is a book that says long in the memory with its vivid description and imagery.  The period feel was a real strength of the book.  Steve had yet to complete, but was enjoying it thus far and contrasted it favourably with Alison Weir as a book written by a real author.  He was full of praise for the language and the rhythms of Water’s prose.  Chris B had also yet to complete, but had already noted that the surroundings and the description of familiar places in a very different time as an impressive feature. Richard had agreed with the view that character and plot were well handled (despite having gone over to the dark side of electronic readership).   

Rob had also liked the book, as well as raising questions about the male characters’ individual and collective weaknesses, and the critique of pornography possibly implied.  Here views were mixed, with some seeing Gentleman as a pivotal character in the book, some seeing the book as pointing up the dangers of pornography, while others saw it as a device that showed the upper middle classes, for all their piety, as no more moral than the residents of Lant Street.

What I Loved - Siri Hustvedt

Mark, Mark, Chris W, Steve, Rob and Ras met in the Salamander, Jan 26th 2012, noting apologies from Neil, Chris B, and Richard from various exotic parts of the world.

What I Loved was discussed first, having been introduced by Rob (again as he introduced it at the December meeting as well).  He was clearly enthused by it in terms of the characterisation, and the writing style.  He indicated that the three qualities he looks for in a book were all there – characterisation, a storyline that is going somewhere and well-written, plausible relationships.  The shock of Matt’s death was very real, although someone thought there was a clue to it in the pages at the end of the first part.  There was general agreement with Rob’s comments, but Steve and Ras were less enamoured by the reams of prose about Bill’s art, they could not see the point nor was there enough detail for the point of it to be clear.  Give us less or more.  (A little like squash or cooking in “Saturday”, was Siri just showing off her knowledge of modern art? Or is that an oxymoron? – Knowledge & modern art.)  Ras asked whether or not there were any clues in the story that might have indicated that Mark was somehow implicated in Matt’s death and there was some thought that this might have been possible.  With regard to the story going somewhere, Ras thought it did not, as Mark was clearly not going to turn from his lying, stealing and drugs, which formed the basis for the last third of the book, confirming what had happened in the earlier parts.  We were not supported by our specialist Psychologists so a detailed analysis of Mark was not available. (I am sure Richard can provide us with an essay on this from his veranda.)

Many agreed that the chase around hotels at the end to rein in Mark provided some light relief, but it was a pretty downbeat tale of lost lives and opportunities, held up by lasting friendships.  Bill & Leo, although there was some discussion about Bill & Leo that the friendship was a little one sided with Leo the passive partner.  Also Leo’s love for Mark as a surrogate father even if he failed to turn him from his ways, but he did show extreme perseverance until the end.


(Notes suplied by Ras - the 'I' above!)

Innocent Traitor - Alison Weir

Salamander, Jan 26th 2012 (a double header with 'What I Loved'!).

Innocent Traitor everyone enjoyed the writing style in modern language and in the first person.  This moved the story along at a good pace and was easy to follow; no ye olde English words or phrases.  It made a good comparison with our recent read of Wolf Hall.  Apart from Jane, who had a pretty terrible short life at the hands of her parents and the power brokers of the day, the only sympathy was for her mother at the end when she realised how bad she had been to her daughter, using her as a pawn in their game to reap riches and power.  The discussion was also mixed about Guilford; was he just a brute to Jane or was he too an “innocent” and how strong was the historical evidence? The issue here was about the exchanged looks/tears between Jane and Guilford on his way to the scaffold.  Those present made no admission of any tears at the end, but it is the BBBC!  Many liked the portrayal of the executioner, but then he was as innocent as Jane.  Most admitted that they did not enjoy history at school, but now in middle age it is time for us to catch up on what we have all missed.  Perhaps O level history was badly taught and had the wrong syllabus.  Present teaching/syllabus is probably more engaging and relevant.  (From my perspective, I want to know why something happened as well as what happened.)

Notes nobly supplied by Ras once again.

Something to Tell You by Hanif Kureishi

December 2011

Six of us present to discuss Hanif Kureishi's 'Something to Tell You' (eventually, after Mark negotiated his pass-out from a family event and Chris B cycled over the hills to Wellow). Absent were Richard, Mark Th., and Neil.

With the exception of Mark T. who rather enjoyed the book, 'Something to Tell You' didn't really work for anyone - though a number of people (Steve, Chris B., Rob and Richard via email from India) acknowledged that they quite enjoyed reading it but, as Richard noted, the whole was less than the sum of the parts. It was a good evening for eloquent summaries of how we felt. Steve probably won the prize for the two best ones by describing the book as being like an evening in the pub with an irritating friend - interesting and rewarding in patches but ultimately not what it could be. (His second will-turned phrase concludes this write-up so you'll have to wait for that). 

There was general agreement (in the pub, as Neil's email somewhat begged to differ) that Kureshi was a clever and good writer. The words flowed well (though opinion varied as to whether that was in a cogent or somewhat anarchic manner), and most agreed that the book was well-laced with nice sentences or vignettes that really captured both the period it was written in and the lifestyle that most (but not all) of us recalled from that time - if not quite with the sexual and drug fuelled excesses of the characters in this novel. There were also some passages that drew particular praise - from Mark T. about the feelings of first love and from Ras about the description of discovering cancer. For balance, this note should also record Neil's horror at what he saw as dreadful writing about sex "When I did eventually come - it was hard work: I felt as if I'd shoved a heavy train through a long tunnel" (I think that was Neil quoting from the book rather than describing what he was doing whilst reading it).

Where there was a consensus was that the characters themselves failed to hold together or well described. Chris' description of them as self-satisfied smug people struck a chord, Wolf and Valentin were felt to be just unbelievable and the central character was somewhat irritating in his failure to ever get a grip on either himself or life in ways that could have helped the plot hang together (what plot?) and he certainly wasn't believable in his role as a psychoanalyst, (note to Mark Th., one reason he wasn't a believable psychiatrist is because he wasn't one. There's no greater way to offend a psychologist or psychoanalyst than by calling them a psychiatrist!).

Ah, the plot - well you see there really wasn't one - which was a major reason for Ras disliking the book so much. His enjoyment of the book increased marginally when Wolf re-appeared because the blackmail line gave him a plot-line to follow - but Chris B explained that the absence of a plot didn't matter because Something to Tell You was really just like a Jane Austen novel. General bafflement at this was dispelled when he said Austen novels are really all about how people behave and interact with one another - which is what this book was also about. Good spot.

So, the final word is given to Steve's second well-turned phrase. He said 'Something to Tell You' was like a writing version of abstract painting - "it gives a pleasing overall impression but when you look closely at the detail, it's a mess".

Scores were pretty low, averaging 4.78. Considering that five people actually said words to the effect of 'I quite liked it', it is somewhat surprising to see it languishing below such turkeys as Queen Loana and Wanted Man. Neil's dislike of sex writing has result in him losing the 2011 Mr. Easy to Please T Shirt at the last minute, which Richard narrowly beating Mark to the title (Chris B. would have won it only he was only there for the last four books thus missing out on the chance to have his score plummet by having read 'Flying Pigs'). Scores and schedule attached. There was, of course, little competition to Ras at the other end.  

We then had a brief discussion about the optional second book - What I Loved' by Siri Hustvedt, whilst avoiding a detailed discussion as only Mark and Rob had finished it. Both of them rated it very highly, whilst the three who had made a start (Chris B., Steve and Ras) were holding back judgment - with a general view of it being 'better than the Kureshi'. Chris W had yet to make a start. The only substantive discussion was about the descriptions of the art installations - which generated a Ras tirade (with support from Steve). HIs point was that they were impossible to achieve as described, whilst the others argued that this was irrelevant, as the descriptions were written as part of the creation of the character of Bill with the detail not being that important.  

The general view as that it would be good to discuss the book so, provided absent others agree, it will form a second discussion at the January meeting. (I suspect that people will either find Innocent Traitor a quick read or else give up on it if history is not their forte).

Richard's more detailed notes from India:

This was a book which was less than the sum of its parts.

There were in fact lots of positive things about it – throughout the book, there were a host of extremely interesting lines and thoughts and observations. And some of them were quite funny. I must have turned down between 30 and 50 pages where there were interesting or funny lines.   Just a few of them were:

·      “I have lived on the same page of the A-to-Z all of my adult life.”

·      (re a part of West London) “That wasn’t the ghetto; the ghetto was Belgravia, Knightsbridge and parts of Notting Hill” (and I was born and brought up near that part of west London).

·      “Isn’t it true that a person incapable of love and sex is incapable of life?”

·      “I don’t think I have ever stopped seeing London like a small boy”.

·      “Being at University in those days was a mixture of extended holiday and finishing school … I read more than I’d ever read before, and with passion that was new and surprising to me”.

·      “I was amazed by the bitterness, viciousness and cruelty of small-time politics”.

·      “These were the days before the working class were considered to be consumerist trash in cheap clothes with writing on them, when they still retained the dignity of doing essential but unpleasant work”.

·      “I like London being one of the great Muslim cities”.

And I liked a lot of his observations about psychoanalysis and psychotherapy:

·      “Like a car mechanic on his back, I work with the underneath or the understory.”

·      “People speak because there are things they don’t want to hear; they listen because there are things that they don’t want to say”.

His observations on ‘normality’ (p 82) were really interesting, as was Jamal’s interpretation of how Ajita was replicating her own mother in her behaviour to her husband and children (p 453).

But on the other hand, there were also a load of negatives.  Some of these were:

·      I did not get to know any of the characters. All of them were quite surface, and at the end of the book I did not really know them any better that when they were introduced.

·      Jamal’s reaction and then lack of development once Ajita returned to the scene seemed false to me.

·      Lots of the characters talked about thinking about deep things, but I saw no evidence of it.

·      I found all the casual-ness of the sex and the drugs and the drinking quite a turn-off – is London so decadent?  I do not think so, even in the exalted circles that these people moved in.

·      Also, I didn’t understand the 4-part structure at all!

  

So, lots of good bits but overall, not as good as it should have been.

The Carhullan Army - Sarah Hall

The Devonshire Arms, Bath, November 24th 2011

There was, unusually, a full house for the discussion on this book. The book was selected by Mark T partly in response to a suggestion that we as a group had read far more male authors than female, and was it time to redress the balance? 

To remind us, the book is set in the near future: Britain has run out of oil, is a satellite state of the US and has its armies stretched overseas, fighting pointless wars. The country is run by The Authority. The story is based in 'Rith' and the surrounding Lake District. A woman known as Sister narrates, from her prison cell. She describes her escape from the bad conditions in Rith, to Carhullan, a female commune. The place is run by Jackie.

There was lively discussion around the book. Most of us enjoyed some aspects of the book, although Mark Th did not enjoy it at all, apart from the ending, but that was only because the ending was the end. The majority did not like the ending as they found it too abrupt and unbelievable, although Rob and Neil thought it was OK. Some liked the gist of the story and found it a good yarn (Richard, Neil), but others (Richard, Steve) felt that the writing style let it down. Richard felt the bleakness was overwhelming and it reminded him of one of our earlier excellent but bleak books –the prison experience in Northern Africa (The Absence of Light) [Ed: writer's opinion, most of the club thought that book was rubbish!]. Chris B and Mark T found the cage description particularly good.

Rob and others enjoyed the description of the communal living, and thought the book raised interesting questions, such as how easily could this country get to a situation described. Ras liked the direct style and thought that the author pulled it off rather well. Neil found it amusing that the men in the story could not seem to fend for themselves.

Chris W felt the book was like an exam question, and did not like the writing style, but thought the plot was quite clever. Mark T liked the description of the life in Rith, and particular liked the decline of her relationship to Andrew. He found the description of the insertion of the coil particular moving and painful. Most people found Jackie intriguing, and lots of discussion about how male she was and whether she was psychotic or not.

There was a lot of debate about where the story was based. Some thought Rith was Penrith, but others including Steve thought it could not be because of the River geography. It was unclear why the US was ok and why the UK was not. There was some questioning over why it had to be a women-only camp, and whether this had been satisfactorily explained in the book, whilst others saw the clear logic of the gender issues that underpinned the book.

There was much talk, obviously, on the sexual position of the women and some thought it plausible that the women would go and seek the downcast men living nearby for sex, but others, (Mark T) were not so sure. Similarly there was some disagreement about whether Sister could turn so easily from men to women.

Rob thought that the radio signals that Jackie picked up about the King dying and possible attacks were all made up by her in order to legitimise her demands for the army to go on the offensive. Others were not so sure. There was a lengthy discussion about how much more had to go wrong in our present situation to make the story come true. Some though the gap was not that great. So in the end most thought the scenario was believable and most people got something out of the book and the discussion.