Wolf Hall – Hilary Mantel

26^th August 2010

Can't find any group notes – this from Steve:

A long read for several reasons:

- It's a long book

- The sun shone on my holiday in Ireland, leaving me far less time in an armchair waiting for the rain to stop than usual

- Style: her curious present tense and 'third person from a first person standpoint' meant I had to read every word, sometimes twice, to get the sense. This made me cross early on but once I got used to the fact that 'he' almost always referred to Cromwell, it became easier. I'm not quite sure it was an entirely successful approach though.

- Difficult to remember who was who - too many Marys and Thomases, but she was dealing with real people so one can't really hold that against her. The cast list and family tree were useful, but even then it wasn't always clear who was being referred to.

But a great read because:

- I learned more about Henry VIII, the Tudors, the dissolution of the monasteries, the context of the Reformation, etc etc, along with several individuals who were familiar in name but not always in deed (More, Cranmer, Wolsey...) than any history book ever taught me (I failed O-level history, mind)

- Her approach allowed her to paint fascinatingly personal pictures of individuals, and I didn;t really care whether she was using literary licence

- I'm sure it was her intention to draw parallels with the modern world ('These days the news could be across Europe within a month...') and I think she did that successfully and interestingly

- I felt close to the times, the people and the events - the narrative rolled along as historical event followed historical event

- The research was awesome (though as she admits herself, not necessarily new - more like a different perspective on what we apparently already know) - I have to admire the achievement

So I was sorry to finish it and will be up for reading the sequel when it emerges. Proof that a good book doesn't have to be an easy read - an 8 from me.

From Neil:

If anything it underlined the elements that frustrated me about the book and I thought More' demise could have been completed in half the number of pages, highlights for me being pages 528-530 in the paperback edition. I also found Cromwell's depiction as a compassionate man in private became more and more incredible against the public figure who drew up legislation that saw so many subsequently put to death and in the absence of hard evidence to defend this belief it became somewhat ridiculous in my mind. Rather like the suggestion that Goebbels was secretly the sponsor of an orphanage for deprived kiddies and loved furry white pussycats. Similarly I couldn't help feeling there were other historical inaccuracies which suggested that many more important flaws might lie beneath the surface. She talks about dictionaries, but surely they didn't come about for many years after this time? The suggestion that Cromwell does Italian chess puzzles from a book sounded rather unlikely and on investigation it seems that the book she refers to was written as a treatise on chess but never published.

6.15

Nocturnes – Kazuo Ishiguro

29th July 2010

A small, but perfectly formed group of only four of us (Steve, Neil, Richard and Rob) met at the Fox and Badger to discuss Nocturnes. 'Twas a consensus that the book was a let down - though Steve was more positive about it than others and none of those present took Ras's extreme stance in his notes that "Writers of books this pointless should be fined for the waste of resources and damage to the environment arising from its publication".

Much of the discussion was about the fact that none of the stories actually went anywhere. Several of them (particularly it was felt the first and last) began to engage in an interesting story, with characterisation that was good good in places (Steve), or OK (others present) but then the story seemed to then fizzle out with no satisfactory ending. This begged the question about what makes a good short story - where there was essentially a difference of opinion between Steve and the rest of us. The majority view was that the real skill in writing a short story is the ability to still have a beginning, a middle and an end, with a point to what has been written and the whole thing feeling like it had been a conventional novel but told in an impressively concise number of pages. This 'wholeness' though was not essential to Steve, who felt that the way some of the stories were written with the drifting off at the end brought an 'ephemeral' quality and was fine. This led into ananolgy with music - fade outs at the end of tracks are OK and a useful and sometimes positive device (quoth Steve) - yes (replied Richard and Rob) - but if the whole album consists of every song ending in a fade-out (as Nocturnes did) then it becomes tiresome and you begin to conclude that the composer (or author) didn't know how to bring anything to a clear end.

The other three areas of discussion about the book that come to mind were:

The actual or alleged connections between the five stories. Neil and Rob had completely missed the fact that the Lindy who appeared all bandaged up eating salmonella infested chicken (see below) was the same Lindy on the balcony in story one. There was even a suggestion from Richard and Steve that there might be links somehow, somewhere, between all the stories, but when challenged to verify this by the unperceptive Neil and me that claim fell short of hard evidence (some tenuous suggestion of the cousin of the strumming mountain walker being the third cousin twice removed of the put upon friend who smashes up his friends apartments - but we wouldn't buy into that).

The quality of the writing - where there was a broadly similar difference between us taking place. Steve felt it was generally good writing, whilst Rob in particular thought it 'clunky', using sentences that didn't flow well. This led into an (unresolved) discussion about the definition of good writing styles

Believability of the storyline. We had this discussion the previous month over 'Shadow of the Wind' where there was broad agreement that if the story didn't set out to be 'realism' then it was fine for elements of the storyline to stretch the boundaries of credulity (or is it credibility???). However, several times in Nocturnes - which by common consent did seek to set itself as realism - things happened that were not credible. In particular for Richard and me when a hotel left chicken out overnight for a buffet and then Security didn't think that two people with bandages around their faces might be the 'thieves' they were looking for.

Beyond that we drifted into discussions about a rnage of things varying from the extent to which we do or do not know about the secret lives of people we think we know well (was Richard trying to tell us something?), to the challenges being faced by all of us in our work arising from the current economic climate and government cuts (bar recently retired psychology professors with secret lives). But let's not go down that depressing road again. We just managed to afford the bar bill between us.

5.53

Shadow of the Wind – Carlos Ruiz Zafon

24th June 2010

Mixed views on the Shadow of The Wind the other night. A smaller gathering than usual (Neil, Mark Th and Will absent), and Chris, Ras and Steve yet to finish. Much of the discussion was about the style of the writing, with disagreement about whether it worked or not. In particular, there was a view that it was an 'adolescent' book in its style (particularly from Richard), which accounted for strong recommendations to read it having come from people in their late teens/early twenties. This view was not shared by some others (notably myself, arguing there was a difference between a book being significantly set in the context and perspective of about someone at that stage in life (e.g. falling in love at the drop of a hat and wanting to shag any willing female) and it thus being an adolescent book. A consensus was not reached on this...

Beyond this, the limited number of people who had finished the book meant that there was limited in depth discussion - even about the translation. Essentially there were two views - one already articulated by Neil in his email, which could perhaps be summarised as 'it promised more than it ultimately delivered', and the other from Mark T and myself (and subsequently from Mark TH., that it told a good, almost engrossing story with interesting characters. There was also some discussion about the Gothic nature of the book and again some difference of opinion about whether or not the fact that some elements of what happened stretched the boundaries of credulity (it was not annoying vs surely that is part of the point of a gothic novel). On such points, Neil's complaint about brain scans being too early for the technology was roundly disabused by our resident eminent medical technician from the RUH. Also, why was it always raining in Barcelona?

6.01

David Nicholls – One Day

27^th May 2010

No group notes apparent, so these from Richard stand in (edited to remove spoilers):

I started by being mostly irritated – there were a few errors (eg p 118 – Dex drives from St John’s Wood and he listened to virtually an entire CD (ie about 80 minutes) before he gets to the M40 – a journey than even in rush hour traffic can only take about 30 minutes) or (eg p 121 and p 130 - on page 121 his sister is 34, on p 130 his mother is 49 – which means that she had her first daughter when she was 15, getting pregnant probably at 14!) or (p 182 – the ‘bilious green’ typeface of a word-processor was the old Amstrad’s and they were around in 1983-4, but certainly NOT by 1995 – no-one used that sort of word-processor by then); and lots was unbelievable – for example (pp 79-80) the claim by Emma that she had never had a holiday – caravanning with parents until age 16, and then 6 days in the Cairngorms with Tilly – so what about all the other school and (more importantly) long university holidays – she actually did NOTHING in all of them other than one 6-day camping trip?).

And the characters seemed SO stereotyped, and also so irritating – he so ‘Mr Perfect’ with everyone fawning over him; she SO embarrassed and gauche and un-self-confident.

But lots changed for me, and when [that thing] happened I was really quite upset and (although I had seen [something of the kind] coming for ages – again the writing was really stereotyped) when it happened I actually went into a slight ‘shock’ reaction – I felt it quite intensely. So, without realising it almost, the characters (and especially Emma) had become extremely deep and solid and real for me. I also found the descriptions of Dexter’s drinking very good and very real.

Lots of the language was good, again an important element for me – and there were good flashes of humour too – I enjoyed the bit when they were on the Greek island and they decided to tell each other a secret, and Dex thinks “but perhaps it would be better to go for something that didn’t reveal him as shallow or seedy, duplicitous or conceited” (p 92); and I enjoyed the bits where he missed every cultural reference that Emma makes in their conversations! I also enjoyed the structure – it was a good way to tell the story of 20 years without getting tedious.

So - if this had not been a club book, I might have not persevered – and I am very pleased indeed that I did persevere, as I found it a moving and rather lovely story.

7.62

The Third Policeman – Flann O'Brien

29th April 2010

Group notes, but heavily biased towards Rob's view!

Almost unanimity last week (including comments from absent friends), but sadly in the negative direction as The Third Policeman failed to be arresting for this particular group of readers. Mark T. went so far as to say he hated what was the worst book yet chosen. As a result, there was remarkably little discussion about the book to report here. I was the exception to this damning view and, whilst not thinking it was a great or even hugely enjoyable piece of literature, nonetheless felt it had several positive factors in its favour. As I was largely alone in this (though with some lukewarm support from Steve) my apologies for this note being heavily biased to my comments as, otherwise there would be little to report other than people saying how they disliked it both in terms of writing style, plot (or lack of) and how it failed to engage the reader. So in order to reflect that there was some debate I'll just record that in my opinion:

The writing style was highly clever in the way it used words in unusual (and often cumbersome) ways that said things in a structure that completely fitted in with the 'unreal' nature of the book itself

The way his brain worked and generated bizarre yet fascinating ideas was both engaging and thought provoking e.g. there being only two directions on the globe not four (difficult to argue with) and the transfer of life properties through friction on (for example) the bike saddle

The humour and style was way ahead of its time and you could see clear elements of what later appeared in the Goons and Python.

But I recognise when I'm onto a loser and the discussion I had anticipated about what was really going on at various points in time in the book never got going. After brief forays into why when and how he died (in the house with the black box or was he dead at the outset?), what we thought about the footnotes (best bit for Neil, tedious for most others), why/how some people rated this so highly (Hay Festival literati) and the nature of the Irish police and society, there was at least some acknowledgement from most that it was good to have read it as an 'experience' and so we drifted into a second discussion about Orwell's Coming Up For Air as Will had finished it over the last month. Opinions on that remain as before. Will also added in a couple of other comments and scores on recently completed books including him concurring with the prevailingly positive views on Sacred Games.

4.29

The Elephant Keeper – Christopher Nicholson

Apparently we read two books in April 2010, not sure why now...

It was an interesting discussion - as it flagged up a range of issues to do with writing style, social history etc etc. Also, with it significantly being set in and around the west country a couple of people (Mark T I think for one) found that of added interest. The comments were, on the whole, quite positive other than from Steve and myself and so it was a bit of a surprise when it came to the scoring that they were on the whole quite low to average (apart from Richard and to a lesser extent Mark).

As I recall at this distant moment, the following were key points in the discussion:

The first part of the book was generally agreed to be the best. It told a good story and contained a lot of interesting social commentary e.g. the relationship between master and servant, the reactions to an elephant appearing int he country for (probably) the first time), the description of city and rural life etc

However, there was also a general view that it tailed off in the latter part - in particular when he went to London when several people began to feel that the novel just stopped working

A majority view (though not consensus) that the relationships between the keeper (see I can;t been remember his name - shows what an impact it had on me) and the elephant became unbelievable at the book went on

Differing views on t he writing style. Consensus that he managed to get the flavour of the period but whether it was well written varied from definitely (Richard) to weak (me).

6.01

Coming Up for Air – George Orwell

25th March 2010

One of our longest and most wide-ranging discussions ever arising from the book in question. Seven of us present and four definite votes of approval for 'Coming Up for Air'. I was a bit more ambivalent, Ras was unimpressed finding it somewhat tedious whilst Mark T has yet to finish it. The overwhelming prevailing view was that Orwell's ability to turn a phrase and, in particular make an observation about life and the world is almost unrivalled. It was difficult to stop people (particular Richard) from reading out their favourite quotes, which seems a good indicator of whether a book has made an impact on its readers or not. The root cause of the slight divergence of opinion was mainly around the slow pace of the novel and/or the debatable question of whether it was a novel or not i.e. given that so little actually happened, could it actually be described as a story as opposed to Orwell wanting to expound on his opinions about the world and using the setting of a person's journey into their past as a mechanism for doing so.

Putting these points to one side, there was little doubt that Orwell struck a chord with many of us in terms of the observations he made about the world and life experiences (too many for me to either recall in full or select the best ones) - hence the wide ranging discussions that took us into questions about whether the world is a better place to live nowadays than it was thirty/forty years ago, global warming and misogyny.

There were a few other minor debates about the book - such as whether George Bowling was a believable character or an old Etonians version of what a lower middle class insurance salesman would have lived like but beyond that the clear view was that Orwell's writing style had both created a pleasurable experience (for most) and generated much discussion and conversation (for all).

6.96