A Plot against America provoked some of liveliest discussion we've had to date. Several layers of the 'plot' concept meant that we read the book in slightly differing ways. There was (i) the Nazi plot against the Jews (ii) the plot against American democracy (iii) the German plot to effectively take control of America through Lindenburgh (iv) the Jewish plot to undermine American society. Take your pick as to which was (i) real - in the counter-fatual story as opposed to real/real, (ii) in people's minds (iii) became a reality as a consequence of the reactions of sections of American society to one of the other actual or imagined plots. Given that, there was little dispute that the book did actually have a plot (or several) unlike some other recent reads and was all the better for it.
An issue for some was the story being told from the perspective of a nine year old boy. Juxtaposing a phenomenally perceptive child and the complex political developments didn't work for some (Steve in particular). Similarly, the interweaving of family/teenage growing up narrative with politics/societal change was generally felt not to be a great success - but with differing views. Some (Neil, Mr Pink) felt the former created the book's highlights, whilst others (Rob & Ras) thought the book only really got going when the political shifts became more seismic after a somewhat turgid first half . Still others (Mark TH. by email) liked the way the two were put together.
In terms of the style and quality of writing, a general thumbs up for Roth's clear use of the English language (the 'keep it simple, stupid' brigade i.e. Will & Rob were particularly happy), but his tendency to use overly long sentences was not welcomed by everyone (Neil, Steve). He clearly has an ability to portray characters well - almost all the main characters came to life and were felt to be plausible (with the possible exception of Lindenburgh - who never made a direct appearance anyway). His technique of revealing key outcomes part-way through a chapter and then going back to describe how they happened was an interesting one that generally worked (Rob)
Most of the real discussion and debate was, not surprisingly, around the counter-factual political story. No doubt partly energised by having a group member (Richard) who had several members of his Jewish family killed in the war in Europe either by fleeing too late or not at all, the book provoked lively discussions on things like:
- Could it have really happened in America? (split verdict)
- How the book (in particular the 'real history' at the back) highlighted for some of us an anti-Semitism in the USA we had previously been aware of, because America has re-written and concealed that part of its history from the world (and current-day Americans)
- Why people would or would not have fled to Canada when faced with the growing tide of anti-Semitism and what would we do in the circumstances? (General consensus we would have no doubt held on and left it too late)
- Why the book makes no reference or acknowledgement to other forms of overt discrimination and oppressed groups in America i.e. the black population
- One of the underpinning issues to the novel: Is the congregation of one racial or religious group together in society a positive or negative thing and are moves to forcibly integrate people with society as a whole ever justifiable?
- The roots of discrimination against sections of society and how, given the opportunity, it is scary how much of society will turn against groups that appear to be an easy target.
So, despite the book prompting of much discussion and a general thumbs up for the writing style, it was interesting that only Richard gave it a high mark. The analogy that appeared to strike a chord (with apologies to the imminent potential sexism - blame Will, it was his idea) was that with a woman who has all the right attributes when looked at objectively (I assume he meant intelligence, charisma .....), but who you just don;t find sexually attractive. The book was well written, good plot, good characters, action, nice sub-plots or story-lines - but somehow it just didn't add up for most of us into a book that we really liked or even recommend to others.
An average score of 6.01 - about two-thirds down the rating list of our 37 books to date.
Tuesday 24 June 2008
Friday 2 May 2008
As I Walked Out One Midsummer Morning – Laurie Lee
Venue: Catherine Wheel, Marshfield, May 1, 2008
Present: Will, Neil, Richard, Ras, Mark T, Mark Th, Steve
This commentary is provided by Steve in The Guv’nor’s absence.
The overwhelming view was positive. Here was a short, gorgeously written account of a young man's adventures in the first half of the 20th Century. It was easy to read, although some felt it was a little slow and needed adjusting to (though personally I found it positively pacy compared to Ten you know whats). And yet, despite its relative brevity, Laurie Lee managed to pack so much in. This was down to his way with a well-turned phrase, effortlessly creating vivid images – early morning wetness of newly rinsed Madrid streets; the insane shimmering midday heat that caught him out several times; the apprehension he felt as he took his violin out for the first time to play for money.
There was an inherent fascination in such an eloquent description of a time, relatively recently, when there were still so many connections with a more distant past. Mr Pink (Mr Pink!) mentions the beginning of the oil age, the era that began to destroy many of the quiet back roads and small settlements that Lee visits. Will spoke of his grandfather, more or less contemporary with Lee, who never left his village – a life started just after the Victorian era, and ended in the age of the mobile phone. I felt some of the descriptions of encounters with characters, places in Spain were almost medieval.
There was an interesting discussion of Mr. Pink's misgiving about Lee's 'selfishness': that he took, as a visitor, and never put anything back – at least not until the end of the book when he returned to Spain to fight. By and large the rest of the club had some difficulty making a connection with this view. Here was a 19-year-old, leaving home with a mind wide open for new experiences, soaking it all up. He had his violin, and when he needed money he played for people's pleasure. He paid his way, and when he decided to settle he did start to take some more formalised part in the local community. Bearing in mind he wasn't fluent in Spanish, and was staying in each place for no more than a week or so, it's hard to see how he could have significantly contributed more. And there's a kind of tradition of the wandering artist, that they rely on the patronage of those better-off (eg the Campbells) and the friendship of those not so fortunate to get by, in the hope that later in life it all comes flowing out in a work of art that enriches us all. Which is exactly what happened!
While I was at the bar a point was raised about the slightly worrying predilection Lee showed for really quite young girls – though there was no evidence of anything illegal. At the same time, again, he was very young himself... Subsequent Googling revealed that at this time the age of consent in Spain was 12, while in England it had gone up from 13 to 16 at the end of the 19th Century.
Drink: Fascinating how his experience of drinking in Spain echoed the issue that many raise today about how destructive the British way of drinking is, compared with continental Europe. Richard was able to illuminate the point with several statistics showing how much the per-capita consumption of alcohol had risen in the UK in the last few decades. While in Spain they carry on much as they always have: taking it steadily, eating along the way, keeping going all night occasionally but sleeping well too. Where has the control over young people's drinking in Northern Europe, and Bath on a Saturday night in particular, gone?
Politics: some surprise at how little he noted about the impending civil war until he got down to Andalusia. But again, he'd never left England before and, with no benchmark to compare, perhaps saw nothing out of the ordinary. Some expressed a wish that he'd added the civil war experiences in the same book.
Which takes us to the question of the way the book came about. Written more than 30 years after the event, with the notebooks he took with him as raw material, how much can we take as gospel? And does it matter if he may have been selective in the experiences he chose to write about, and maybe embellished others? Will pointed out that in later life Lee himself was a heavy drinker and I think he acquired a reputation as a bit of a rogue too, so I guess it's quite possible that some passages matured somewhat before making it onto the page. But for most of us that didn't take away one bit from what was a fascinating, elegantly written, historically important and sometimes moving account.
Average points 7.4, creeping into fourth place in our overall up town top ranking!
Present: Will, Neil, Richard, Ras, Mark T, Mark Th, Steve
This commentary is provided by Steve in The Guv’nor’s absence.
The overwhelming view was positive. Here was a short, gorgeously written account of a young man's adventures in the first half of the 20th Century. It was easy to read, although some felt it was a little slow and needed adjusting to (though personally I found it positively pacy compared to Ten you know whats). And yet, despite its relative brevity, Laurie Lee managed to pack so much in. This was down to his way with a well-turned phrase, effortlessly creating vivid images – early morning wetness of newly rinsed Madrid streets; the insane shimmering midday heat that caught him out several times; the apprehension he felt as he took his violin out for the first time to play for money.
There was an inherent fascination in such an eloquent description of a time, relatively recently, when there were still so many connections with a more distant past. Mr Pink (Mr Pink!) mentions the beginning of the oil age, the era that began to destroy many of the quiet back roads and small settlements that Lee visits. Will spoke of his grandfather, more or less contemporary with Lee, who never left his village – a life started just after the Victorian era, and ended in the age of the mobile phone. I felt some of the descriptions of encounters with characters, places in Spain were almost medieval.
There was an interesting discussion of Mr. Pink's misgiving about Lee's 'selfishness': that he took, as a visitor, and never put anything back – at least not until the end of the book when he returned to Spain to fight. By and large the rest of the club had some difficulty making a connection with this view. Here was a 19-year-old, leaving home with a mind wide open for new experiences, soaking it all up. He had his violin, and when he needed money he played for people's pleasure. He paid his way, and when he decided to settle he did start to take some more formalised part in the local community. Bearing in mind he wasn't fluent in Spanish, and was staying in each place for no more than a week or so, it's hard to see how he could have significantly contributed more. And there's a kind of tradition of the wandering artist, that they rely on the patronage of those better-off (eg the Campbells) and the friendship of those not so fortunate to get by, in the hope that later in life it all comes flowing out in a work of art that enriches us all. Which is exactly what happened!
While I was at the bar a point was raised about the slightly worrying predilection Lee showed for really quite young girls – though there was no evidence of anything illegal. At the same time, again, he was very young himself... Subsequent Googling revealed that at this time the age of consent in Spain was 12, while in England it had gone up from 13 to 16 at the end of the 19th Century.
Drink: Fascinating how his experience of drinking in Spain echoed the issue that many raise today about how destructive the British way of drinking is, compared with continental Europe. Richard was able to illuminate the point with several statistics showing how much the per-capita consumption of alcohol had risen in the UK in the last few decades. While in Spain they carry on much as they always have: taking it steadily, eating along the way, keeping going all night occasionally but sleeping well too. Where has the control over young people's drinking in Northern Europe, and Bath on a Saturday night in particular, gone?
Politics: some surprise at how little he noted about the impending civil war until he got down to Andalusia. But again, he'd never left England before and, with no benchmark to compare, perhaps saw nothing out of the ordinary. Some expressed a wish that he'd added the civil war experiences in the same book.
Which takes us to the question of the way the book came about. Written more than 30 years after the event, with the notebooks he took with him as raw material, how much can we take as gospel? And does it matter if he may have been selective in the experiences he chose to write about, and maybe embellished others? Will pointed out that in later life Lee himself was a heavy drinker and I think he acquired a reputation as a bit of a rogue too, so I guess it's quite possible that some passages matured somewhat before making it onto the page. But for most of us that didn't take away one bit from what was a fascinating, elegantly written, historically important and sometimes moving account.
Average points 7.4, creeping into fourth place in our overall up town top ranking!
Sunday 13 April 2008
Ten Days in the Hills – Jane Smiley
On this one the various e-mails between people really said it all. The only additional things I can recall at this delayed stage are that:
- Mr Pink was particularly impressed by the structure of the novel, with two sections to each of the days having (apparently – as I couldn't see it) a logical process linking them all together
- There was a general view that she wrote well, but didn’t really seem to have anything to write about, no plot etc so it just became tedious – though Mr Pink in particular felt that a strength rather than weakness
- Differing views on the characters, varying from Steve claiming to have met most of them in his lifetime, to me thinking they were all parodies and wanting to either punch them on the nose or run out of the room if I was ever with any of them
- Mark T appeared to have an in-depth knowledge of the page numbers on which the graphic sex was contained
- My view that this felt a bit like going back 30 years and reading a Harold Robins novel – but with longer words and sentences and no ending
- Mr Pink was particularly impressed by the structure of the novel, with two sections to each of the days having (apparently – as I couldn't see it) a logical process linking them all together
- There was a general view that she wrote well, but didn’t really seem to have anything to write about, no plot etc so it just became tedious – though Mr Pink in particular felt that a strength rather than weakness
- Differing views on the characters, varying from Steve claiming to have met most of them in his lifetime, to me thinking they were all parodies and wanting to either punch them on the nose or run out of the room if I was ever with any of them
- Mark T appeared to have an in-depth knowledge of the page numbers on which the graphic sex was contained
- My view that this felt a bit like going back 30 years and reading a Harold Robins novel – but with longer words and sentences and no ending
Saturday 8 March 2008
Chesil Beach - Ian McEwan
Date: Feb 28, 2008
Meeting venue: Fox and Badger, Wellow.
Present: Rob, Chris, Steve, Neil, Mark T, Mark Th (later)
A double dose for Feb 08. Ian McEwan's Chesil Beach had been bubbling under for a while: several members had said they'd like to read it, but equally others already had, and as a matter of preference we aim to choose something that no-one's read before. So given that it's a short book (apparently nearly turned down for the Booker on the grounds that it was too short), we agreed to discuss it along with this month's 'proper' choice (A Thousand Splendid Suns - notes posted separately).
These are Rob's notes, so 'I' means 'Rob'...
Greater consensus about Chesil Beach than Thousand Suns. I recall Chris being particularly flowery in his praise of McEwan's writing style and capabilities. There was general appreciation of the humour in the description of actions in the hotel room, fond memories of how completely naff so much of our culture was at that time (e.g. the food) and slightly less fond memories (from some) of similar sexual discovery/failure in our youth. Some discussion about whether and how it would have been possible for the communicative failure between the two central characters to have been resolved (they just needed a good psychologist) or was it so deeply ingrained in the cultural norms of the time that neither could have been helped out of the predicament. General (but not unanimous) view that it was an extremely sad book - wasted lives etc. because of an inability to be honest and open. There was also discussion about Richard's strong view that the last fifteen pages should have been around 150 pages and have told the rest of the story. Others (Steve in particular if I recall rightly) felt the last section to be totally unnecessary and that the book should have finished as she walked away down the beach. I think McEwan got it right - and the brief outline of the damage to the rest of his life from that failure to act gave exactly the right emphasis to the central message of how compliance with societal norms, if unchallenged, can destroy lives.
Generally very high marks so far - right up there near the top with 7.37 - Will's score still to come. However, I cannot help but feel that the high marks were linked to it being so short (which is fair enough as we are marking it on the whole package) but I wonder if it had been a normal book length it might have come out a bit less well - with its brevity making us feel extra positive at the end as we finished it so quickly and easily.
Meeting venue: Fox and Badger, Wellow.
Present: Rob, Chris, Steve, Neil, Mark T, Mark Th (later)
A double dose for Feb 08. Ian McEwan's Chesil Beach had been bubbling under for a while: several members had said they'd like to read it, but equally others already had, and as a matter of preference we aim to choose something that no-one's read before. So given that it's a short book (apparently nearly turned down for the Booker on the grounds that it was too short), we agreed to discuss it along with this month's 'proper' choice (A Thousand Splendid Suns - notes posted separately).
These are Rob's notes, so 'I' means 'Rob'...
Greater consensus about Chesil Beach than Thousand Suns. I recall Chris being particularly flowery in his praise of McEwan's writing style and capabilities. There was general appreciation of the humour in the description of actions in the hotel room, fond memories of how completely naff so much of our culture was at that time (e.g. the food) and slightly less fond memories (from some) of similar sexual discovery/failure in our youth. Some discussion about whether and how it would have been possible for the communicative failure between the two central characters to have been resolved (they just needed a good psychologist) or was it so deeply ingrained in the cultural norms of the time that neither could have been helped out of the predicament. General (but not unanimous) view that it was an extremely sad book - wasted lives etc. because of an inability to be honest and open. There was also discussion about Richard's strong view that the last fifteen pages should have been around 150 pages and have told the rest of the story. Others (Steve in particular if I recall rightly) felt the last section to be totally unnecessary and that the book should have finished as she walked away down the beach. I think McEwan got it right - and the brief outline of the damage to the rest of his life from that failure to act gave exactly the right emphasis to the central message of how compliance with societal norms, if unchallenged, can destroy lives.
Generally very high marks so far - right up there near the top with 7.37 - Will's score still to come. However, I cannot help but feel that the high marks were linked to it being so short (which is fair enough as we are marking it on the whole package) but I wonder if it had been a normal book length it might have come out a bit less well - with its brevity making us feel extra positive at the end as we finished it so quickly and easily.
Friday 7 March 2008
A Thousand Splendid Suns – Khaled Hosseini
Date: Feb 28, 2008
Meeting venue: Fox and Badger, Wellow.
Present: Rob, Chris, Steve, Neil, Mark T, Mark Th (later)
A Thousand Splendid Suns, by Khaled Hosseini
This was the first time we'd re-visited an author. Hosseini's 'The Kite Runner' was the club's first book.
Instantly disliked by some (Steve) for costing £11.99 despite being a paperback. Rob's slightly edited notes:
Overall a positive response, but with two varying levels of enjoyment. Neil, Mark T, Rob and Richard (by email) found it an extremely enjoyable book. The writing style is clear, easy to read, with effective use of language, evocative descriptions etc., good strong characters, good historical/political insights.
On the other hand Steve and particularly Chris were less impressed. Both were critical of the writing style and the story line - it was 'like a soap opera with soap opera characters' ["Leave 'im, Mariam, 'e's not worf it..."] and 'written for the film script' (what a cynic).
In trying to identify the reasons for these differences of opinion, we discussed:
(i) The writing style. Chris complained there was too little substance to the writing style. Steve called up the evergreen Chinese meal analogy: quickly wolfed down but ultimately leaves a hole. Rob however enjoyed the low key style, feeling that he achieves a high level of tension and descriptive capacity.
(ii) The story line. Suggested by the negative entourage to be predictable - but others cited several twists and turns that were unexpected (e.g. Tariq's re-appearance).
(iii) The characters. Felt by some to be parodies, along with their actions (such as trying to bury the dead husband under the, er, patio), but by others to potentially be what life and people are/were like in that culture at that point in time - should we expect people to behave in 'western' styles in middle eastern settings?
From there the discussion went two ways. One strand connected to some of Ras's comments about the contribution of Hosseini's books to an understanding about Afghanistan, its politics and its culture. Again, the discussion divided along broadly similar line. We mostly agreed that both books had greatly increased our understanding (and western society's as a whole) of Afghan history and its current predicaments in a way that was a very constructive antidote to the simplistic prejudices of the Murdoch press - which is where the UK gets most if its Afghani perceptions from. On the other hand there was a feeling that he was allowing or using his position as a US Goodwill envoy to the UN to take over - he had ceased to be a novelist and was rather a revisionist (as in US style perception) Afghani publicist.
The second linked discussion considered whether his repertoire was limited. How different was this book to Kite Runner? Some felt it was telling the same story again, whilst others suggested that a novel set in Afghanistan is so rare that this makes it feel similar because we are so unfamiliar with such settings, whereas the content was really quite different i.e. would two novels by the same author about people, relationships and politics in modern Britain be considered to be basically the same story? Plus, many other authors write several books with the same setting, why should that be a criticism for Hosseini?
Steve adds: One thing that is clear, on re-reading the above, is that we probably didn't give due time in the discussion to what is for many readers the key point of the book: that it is written by a man from a female point of view and that it aims to expose and elicit sympathy for the plight of women in Afghanistan over the past 30 years. I don't think that we missed this, so to speak, but perhaps being the Bath Blokes Book Club, these issues didn't resonate for us quite as much as they might with a mixed or female group. Perhaps this is therefore a triumph for Hosseini's style, in that he didn't allow his achievement in doing this to detract from the plotting and structure - enabling us to talk in terms of soap operas and character development, rather than the gender-based issues? But I'm not changing my score!
Average score: 6.8/10 (with Will and Mark Th's scores to come)
When we've figured out how, we'll post a spreadsheet with all the scores updated.
Meeting venue: Fox and Badger, Wellow.
Present: Rob, Chris, Steve, Neil, Mark T, Mark Th (later)
A Thousand Splendid Suns, by Khaled Hosseini
This was the first time we'd re-visited an author. Hosseini's 'The Kite Runner' was the club's first book.
Instantly disliked by some (Steve) for costing £11.99 despite being a paperback. Rob's slightly edited notes:
Overall a positive response, but with two varying levels of enjoyment. Neil, Mark T, Rob and Richard (by email) found it an extremely enjoyable book. The writing style is clear, easy to read, with effective use of language, evocative descriptions etc., good strong characters, good historical/political insights.
On the other hand Steve and particularly Chris were less impressed. Both were critical of the writing style and the story line - it was 'like a soap opera with soap opera characters' ["Leave 'im, Mariam, 'e's not worf it..."] and 'written for the film script' (what a cynic).
In trying to identify the reasons for these differences of opinion, we discussed:
(i) The writing style. Chris complained there was too little substance to the writing style. Steve called up the evergreen Chinese meal analogy: quickly wolfed down but ultimately leaves a hole. Rob however enjoyed the low key style, feeling that he achieves a high level of tension and descriptive capacity.
(ii) The story line. Suggested by the negative entourage to be predictable - but others cited several twists and turns that were unexpected (e.g. Tariq's re-appearance).
(iii) The characters. Felt by some to be parodies, along with their actions (such as trying to bury the dead husband under the, er, patio), but by others to potentially be what life and people are/were like in that culture at that point in time - should we expect people to behave in 'western' styles in middle eastern settings?
From there the discussion went two ways. One strand connected to some of Ras's comments about the contribution of Hosseini's books to an understanding about Afghanistan, its politics and its culture. Again, the discussion divided along broadly similar line. We mostly agreed that both books had greatly increased our understanding (and western society's as a whole) of Afghan history and its current predicaments in a way that was a very constructive antidote to the simplistic prejudices of the Murdoch press - which is where the UK gets most if its Afghani perceptions from. On the other hand there was a feeling that he was allowing or using his position as a US Goodwill envoy to the UN to take over - he had ceased to be a novelist and was rather a revisionist (as in US style perception) Afghani publicist.
The second linked discussion considered whether his repertoire was limited. How different was this book to Kite Runner? Some felt it was telling the same story again, whilst others suggested that a novel set in Afghanistan is so rare that this makes it feel similar because we are so unfamiliar with such settings, whereas the content was really quite different i.e. would two novels by the same author about people, relationships and politics in modern Britain be considered to be basically the same story? Plus, many other authors write several books with the same setting, why should that be a criticism for Hosseini?
Steve adds: One thing that is clear, on re-reading the above, is that we probably didn't give due time in the discussion to what is for many readers the key point of the book: that it is written by a man from a female point of view and that it aims to expose and elicit sympathy for the plight of women in Afghanistan over the past 30 years. I don't think that we missed this, so to speak, but perhaps being the Bath Blokes Book Club, these issues didn't resonate for us quite as much as they might with a mixed or female group. Perhaps this is therefore a triumph for Hosseini's style, in that he didn't allow his achievement in doing this to detract from the plotting and structure - enabling us to talk in terms of soap operas and character development, rather than the gender-based issues? But I'm not changing my score!
Average score: 6.8/10 (with Will and Mark Th's scores to come)
When we've figured out how, we'll post a spreadsheet with all the scores updated.
Friday 15 February 2008
The Cry of the Halidon - Robert Ludlum
Date: Jan 31, 2008
Meeting venue: George & Dragon, Batheaston
Present: Neil, Steve, Rob, Ras, Chris, Mark T
Rob's notes:
So Robert Ludlum got the thumbs down by unanimous acclaim (with Mark Th and Will's comments and scores to come - though Mark's email comment implied he concurs). Ras (who nominated it in the first place) was however keen to assure us that this was the worst Ludlum he has ever read by him and the rest are good. In brief: no depth of writing, shallow characters (all based around the Agatha Christie style reason for being in the novel), unbelievable plot (how could they simultaneously kill eminent people all over the world and then fall under a car whilst failing to get one person in a London night-club), poor writing style (using different words for the same thing just for the sake of it) and lots of little points for us to pick at in terms of accuracy, language etc. (My favourite was the incorrect geographical directions when leaving the Savoy, which would have got him into Covent Garden and not on Waterloo Bridge). Some thoughts that it might make a good film, questions about how (when we all thought it was such crap) he managed to get it published in the first place as it wasn't published under his own name, and then a debate about whether books written by Americans that are set in Britain should use the English language rather than American to describe things e.g. just what is a 'Britisher'? I'm not sure there was a lot more to say - probably the shortest discussion we've ever had on a book.
In terms of scores - the lowest ever by a long way, at 2.21/10 (less than half the next lowest). The only notable factor on the personal scores front is that Mark Th is now the annual most easy to please - but he hasn't scored Halidon yet which I suspect may change that and result in Richard and I having that questionable honour - with three decimal points not separating us. For those to whom this means nothing, just wait until we find a way of posting the holy spreadsheet of BBBC for general consumption...
Meeting venue: George & Dragon, Batheaston
Present: Neil, Steve, Rob, Ras, Chris, Mark T
Rob's notes:
So Robert Ludlum got the thumbs down by unanimous acclaim (with Mark Th and Will's comments and scores to come - though Mark's email comment implied he concurs). Ras (who nominated it in the first place) was however keen to assure us that this was the worst Ludlum he has ever read by him and the rest are good. In brief: no depth of writing, shallow characters (all based around the Agatha Christie style reason for being in the novel), unbelievable plot (how could they simultaneously kill eminent people all over the world and then fall under a car whilst failing to get one person in a London night-club), poor writing style (using different words for the same thing just for the sake of it) and lots of little points for us to pick at in terms of accuracy, language etc. (My favourite was the incorrect geographical directions when leaving the Savoy, which would have got him into Covent Garden and not on Waterloo Bridge). Some thoughts that it might make a good film, questions about how (when we all thought it was such crap) he managed to get it published in the first place as it wasn't published under his own name, and then a debate about whether books written by Americans that are set in Britain should use the English language rather than American to describe things e.g. just what is a 'Britisher'? I'm not sure there was a lot more to say - probably the shortest discussion we've ever had on a book.
In terms of scores - the lowest ever by a long way, at 2.21/10 (less than half the next lowest). The only notable factor on the personal scores front is that Mark Th is now the annual most easy to please - but he hasn't scored Halidon yet which I suspect may change that and result in Richard and I having that questionable honour - with three decimal points not separating us. For those to whom this means nothing, just wait until we find a way of posting the holy spreadsheet of BBBC for general consumption...
Thursday 3 January 2008
All the Pretty Horses - Cormac McCarthy
Date: Jan 3, 2008
Meeting venue: Devonshire Arms, Bath.
Present: Steve, Rob, Will, Mark T, Mark Th, Chris
Rob's notes (more or less):
The general view of Pretty Horses was highly positive - with it ending up as the third highest-rated book in the illustrious history of our esteemed group (having to go the three decimal places to separate it from Kite Runner).
Looking back on Thursday night's discussion, after the initial round of comments, I think there was actually less discussion about the book and issues emanating from it than usual - hence this note will be briefer than other occasions. General opinion was:
- excellent writing style. Very atmospheric. In particular was good at descriptive writing that conveyed both the picture and the atmosphere of locations and good at describing nothing happening - as well as a lot happening. The lack of punctuation was felt by most not to be an issue and by some as being a positive asset.
- Fantastic evocation of landscape, almost tangible textures
- Some discussion about the Spanish text - Steve found a website with translations, but only after he'd finished reading it - with some concern about how it seemed to contain important information, but generally people were OK with it
- Different settings and scenes strong in their own right (though some felt the second scene with the great aunt was a bit out of kilter).
- the Quest/moral story element of it felt to work well
- Generally positive feedback about the central character of Grady and how it was developed.
I suspect I've missed things (as I was disagreeing with most of this) so please feel free to add.
Overall mark: 7.1/10
Meeting venue: Devonshire Arms, Bath.
Present: Steve, Rob, Will, Mark T, Mark Th, Chris
Rob's notes (more or less):
The general view of Pretty Horses was highly positive - with it ending up as the third highest-rated book in the illustrious history of our esteemed group (having to go the three decimal places to separate it from Kite Runner).
Looking back on Thursday night's discussion, after the initial round of comments, I think there was actually less discussion about the book and issues emanating from it than usual - hence this note will be briefer than other occasions. General opinion was:
- excellent writing style. Very atmospheric. In particular was good at descriptive writing that conveyed both the picture and the atmosphere of locations and good at describing nothing happening - as well as a lot happening. The lack of punctuation was felt by most not to be an issue and by some as being a positive asset.
- Fantastic evocation of landscape, almost tangible textures
- Some discussion about the Spanish text - Steve found a website with translations, but only after he'd finished reading it - with some concern about how it seemed to contain important information, but generally people were OK with it
- Different settings and scenes strong in their own right (though some felt the second scene with the great aunt was a bit out of kilter).
- the Quest/moral story element of it felt to work well
- Generally positive feedback about the central character of Grady and how it was developed.
I suspect I've missed things (as I was disagreeing with most of this) so please feel free to add.
Overall mark: 7.1/10
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)
